Venables!!!!

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Venables!!!!

Post  EarthsAngel on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:01 am

March 8, 2010
The hideous reflection in the mirror of the mob

Daily Mail, 8 March 2010

Almost every day now, fresh claims are surfacing in the media about why Jon Venables, one of the pair who murdered toddler James Bulger, has broken the terms of his licence and been sent to prison.

The latest is that he was involved in some kind of sexual offence, possibly relating to child pornography.

There are also reports that he had been meddling with drugs, as well as claims that he and his fellow killer Robert Thompson were given kid-glove treatment while in their secure children’s institutions.

But as the pressure mounts upon the Government to reveal what Venables did, I find myself torn about how to respond. Yes, there are crucial considerations of justice. But there are also issues of compassion and proportionality.

And I am troubled by what appears to be a lynch-mob mentality fuelling some of this tumult. What struck me so forcibly during the trial of Thompson and Venables in 1993 was that, right from the start, people seemed to be reluctant to acknowledge that they were, in fact, just children.

Yes, their crime in abducting, torturing and bludgeoning two-year-old James to death was abominable.

Yes, the agony of his mother Denise is, indeed, a life sentence. But Thompson and Venables were ten years old when they murdered James. If they had been a few months younger, they would have been deemed too young to have been dealt with by the criminal justice system at all.

Yet they were attacked as if they were grown men with an adult responsibility for their actions. They were labelled as ‘evil’ and ‘monsters’. I remember the mob hammering on the prison van as it transported them to and from court.

Few could doubt that, if it had had the chance, that maddened crowd would have torn those children limb from limb. To shudder at such scenes is not to be soft-headed about those who do terrible deeds.

It is to recognise that the whole point of a justice system is to rise above such primitive passions and transmute the desire for vengeance into due process of law.

Because Thompson and Venables were children whose behaviour was rooted in their catastrophic family backgrounds, it was thought possible effectively to reprogramme them to become socially responsible individuals by looking after them in secure children’s institutions.

The point about children is that they are immature and still developing. There is a chance that, with skilled intervention to counter the effects of years of neglect or abuse, they might be diverted from the appalling trajectory of crime and violence which would otherwise be their inevitable fate.

It is surely only humane and civilised to make such an attempt. Not to do so is to have the bleakest possible view of human nature, not to mention a brutal approach to children.

Equally, however, it may not be possible to rescue some individuals who have been irreparably damaged. Clearly, those who have committed such terrible crimes should not be released until it is certain that this is not the case.

But, in the case of Venables, a crucial mistake was made which prevented such an assessment. He was let out of custody too early.

If the decision of the then Home Secretary Michael Howard that the pair should spend at least 15 years in custody had not been overturned by the courts as ‘institutionalised vengeance’, they would not have been released until they were 25.

As it was, they were released at 18, the age at which, if kept in custody, they would have had to enter an adult prison.

And that was something the judges were desperate to avoid. With the settled conviction — now the default position in the higher judiciary — that prison does only harm, it was feared that it would undo all the good work that had been done with Thompson and Venables.

This meant that Venables was released before anyone could be sure that his profoundly damaged early childhood had not resulted in a profoundly damaged man.

Until the moment he was jailed for breaching his licence, we had no idea that such a mistake had been made because of the secrecy in which he and Thompson had been held.

This is because, if the attempt to reprogramme such children is to have any chance of succeeding — not to mention the need to protect their physical safety — they need to be shielded from scrutiny. Which is why they were given new identities.

Ministers’ refusal to say why Venables was jailed a week ago — other than that the allegations against him were ‘extremely serious’ — is based on the assertion that to reveal the details might prejudice a future trial for the new offences.

But since faced with a 27-year-old defendant charged with these offences a jury would probably put two and two together anyway, that argument seems flawed. More pertinent is the fear that any such details might well blow his cover, exposing him to a serious risk of attack, whether in prison or out.

Those who respond ‘So what?’ must acknowledge that they don’t care if Venables is killed. That is the cry of the lynch mob. It is effectively to outsource capital punishment by extra-judicial means.

And yet, on the other hand, this secrecy is far from desirable. First, we have every right to know the way in which taxpayers’ money is being spent on the treatment of criminals.

More pertinently, such secrecy allows incompetence to flourish. It means we have no way of knowing whether the treatment of young offenders is going wrong; no way of holding childcare or psychiatric professionals — whose record hardly inspires much confidence - to account.

Now the authorities are in a mess. The knowledge that Venables has been jailed for breaching his licence means that people in prison are likely to work out his identity. So he needs to be given yet another one.

But now we read that Venables is blowing his own cover, blurting out his name in prison because he can no longer cope with the pressure of living a lie.

It’s hard to avoid concluding that secrets have an awful tendency to blow up in your face. No good ever comes of a lie; and such secrecy is a lie about identity.

And yet, and yet… It is said that Mary Bell, who was convicted in 1968 of the manslaughter of two little boys when she herself was a child, has led a responsible and settled life since her release under a new identity.

Again, we have no way of confirming this. But if it is true, then undoubtedly the protection of Bell’s identity has enabled that particular deeply damaged child to be redeemed. Yet it has to be said that her crimes took place in a different era.

It’s not that what she did wasn’t seen to be as shocking as the murder of James Bulger 25 years later. But Bell, who was found to have diminished responsibility, was seen as a true aberration by a society in which the brutal killing of a child by a child seemed utterly incomprehensible.

It’s hard to avoid the unpalatable conclusion that the extreme demonisation of Thompson and Venables has arisen in large measure because the boundaries of civilised behaviour — particularly in terms of epidemic family disintegration and extreme violence at ever-younger ages — have been fracturing far more widely.

The hysteria provoked by the killers of James Bulger is thus all the more extreme because their crimes have held up a terrible mirror to society.

While the Venables debacle poses a difficult dilemma about secrecy in the criminal justice system, it is what this whole affair says about our modern age that is perhaps the most disturbing aspect of all.

_________________
Put a Bible in the wind and the rain and it will perish; my Bible IS the wind and the rain

avatar
EarthsAngel
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1685
Join date : 2010-01-25
Location : District 9

Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:12 am

Neither of them should have been released. They were both old enough to know right from wrong and they decided to cut short a young life, they should have rotted in jail, I really hope they don't let him go again.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  El Guapo on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:24 am

The guy who wrote that article is a fucking asshole. 10 years old is more than mature enough to know exactly what they were doing.

When Jamie Bulger screamed in terror and fear did they stop? Did they even care?

And their final act, placing the body on a railway track to make it look like an accident, is proof enough that they knew perfectly well what they had done was wrong. No thought was given to the parents. No thought of the unimaginable pain and suffering endured by them when they discovered the fate of their baby.

There was no remorse from either Venables or Thompson. This has nothing to do with age or maturity. It is evil in its most purest form.

May they both burn in hell for eternity.

_________________
If Carlsberg made men...

avatar
El Guapo
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2176
Join date : 2010-01-25
Age : 40
Location : Seated in front of PC

Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  EarthsAngel on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:55 am

I totally disagree with the writer (Melanie Philips) They were ten years old, but at that age, to do what they did to a little baby was horrendous!! U doubt any sort of intervention would have ever made them better. They are monsters and should have been locked away for life!!

I'm sick of this namby pamby attitude, there are kids out there younger than ten who will kill, main or batter another child, they should be locked away from society.

_________________
Put a Bible in the wind and the rain and it will perish; my Bible IS the wind and the rain

avatar
EarthsAngel
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1685
Join date : 2010-01-25
Location : District 9

Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  El Guapo on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:57 am

EarthsAngel wrote:I totally disagree with the writer (Melanie Philips) They were ten years old, but at that age, to do what they did to a little baby was horrendous!! U doubt any sort of intervention would have ever made them better. They are monsters and should have been locked away for life!!

I'm sick of this namby pamby attitude, there are kids out there younger than ten who will kill, main or batter another child, they should be locked away from society.

Absolutely!

It's this liberal human rights equality bullshit that is the reason this country is in such a state.

Both Venables and Thompwson should have been put to death.

Is this pack mentality? Maybe so but why is pack mentality a bad thing? Society owes a duty to itself to protect its members from harm.

_________________
If Carlsberg made men...

avatar
El Guapo
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2176
Join date : 2010-01-25
Age : 40
Location : Seated in front of PC

Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  danmaspethny on Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:47 am

the thing here is, they set out to torture and kill that little boy.
he wasnt killed by accident,it was premeditated. They killed for kicks.
They should never have been released.If you kill once,you can kill again,just the same as a rapist will recommit. Or a thief will steal again.Its what they do. its their mindset.
prisons were not meant to rehabilitate people. They were built to punish people for their crimes.
Nowadays they are seen to be more like holiday camps.
The pair of them need to be put back inside and the key thrown away.

danmaspethny

Posts : 48
Join date : 2010-01-29

Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  EarthsAngel on Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:49 am

This is a great post from Gail on Jezzas.....hope you don't mind me borrowing it Gail?

I read this story from TruTV and although it was long, it had a lot of information in it that I found informative and interesting: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri ... dex_1.html

It did include this case and it shed some information that I had not read nor heard before. This small excert was especially interesting to me:
Quote:
Expert testimony from psychiatrists affirmed that these boys were not insane; they had understood the nature of their crime and knew it was wrong. Thus, their state of mind at the time of the crime was not psychotic. In essence, they acted with adult consciousness. The pathologist confirmed that the wounds showed brutal intent.


The one point of that statement I would question is if those boys truly acted with "adult consciousness". I worked within the juvenile court system for years and the one reoccurring question was at which age children actually form a concept of death. According to many experts these two would have been on the borderline of an age of comprehending ‘dead means dead’.

Young people that either commit or attempt suicide for example, may not understand that dead means you can not come back. There is no 'sorry' in suicide or murder. By saying these two acted with "adult consciousness" are they saying that they understood the concept of death?

Two things are still disturbing me over this case...it bothered me back when it happened and I just can not seem to get it out of my head since last week. Maybe it is the maternal instinct…

One… from all the reports I have read, the parole board and people charged with making sure these two lived within the license agreement terms appear to have had information that Venables did in fact break that agreement long before now. Given the degree of brutality of the original crime, you would think any infraction should bring them back to prison...like the warning Venables had gotten for drug use. WTHeck....a warning? And that was not the only incidence it seems they knew about. Any incidence IMO should have put him right back behind bars.

Secondly… at the time of the murder it was reported that Venables appeared to be the follower and Thompson the leader. Is there any chance that Thompson is also better at hiding infractions committed since his release? Even scarier, the parole boards knew of Venables lapses without acting and I wonder if that is also the case with Thompson…what is being kept secret? If so, why wait for something much more serious?

Secrecy within the criminal justice system, IMO, is never a good idea. Keep their ID’s hidden … ok…but the actions or inactions of the review board and parole officers should be public information. Not just to protect the public but to also protect other criminals who may be treated unfairly.

This 16 chapter report is long and contains some disturbing information but I thought it was very objective and contained information that helped me to sort some things out in my own mind. Worth a read if you have the time or inclination.

_________________
Put a Bible in the wind and the rain and it will perish; my Bible IS the wind and the rain

avatar
EarthsAngel
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1685
Join date : 2010-01-25
Location : District 9

Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  EarthsAngel on Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:17 am

I killed James Bulger: fancy a date?



Venables caught after using real name to search for girls on the net
Image Flag

By Lucy Panton, Crime Editor, 04/04/2010
EVIL Jon Venables' shocking haul of child porn was uncovered when he started boasting about his REAL IDENTITY on the internet... to try to get a DATE.

Horrified cops monitoring the reckless child killer's secret life swooped to snatch his computer after spotting his posts on social network sites telling people who he was.

It was then that they found his horde of sickening pictures.

Now Venables, 27, is described as "teetering on the edge of a breakdown" back behind bars while awaiting his fate. He has also started blurting out his real name to astonished prison staff, saying: "I am Jon Venables. I do not want a new identity."
Alarm

VICTIM: Two-year-old James
VICTIM: Two-year-old James

Our revelations of the killer's disintegrating mental state backs the campaign by James Bulger's mother Denise, 42, to have him locked up indefinitely.

A senior source told the News of the World how the beast's online banter, on sites like Facebook, shook his team of handlers trying to keep his identity under wraps.

"Before his arrest Venables was regularly using social networking sites," said the insider.

"Alarm bells went off when he began shooting his mouth off telling people his real identity.

"It was because of this that his computer was seized and the child porn was discovered."

The source said concerns that he had breached the strict terms of his parole soon ballooned into a "nightmare scenario" when the discovery of the child porn made a police investigation necessary. Venables was immediately recalled to jail and told under no circumstances to disclose his true identity.

But a top source told us: "Venables has flipped. Up until a few days ago a lot of people in prison suspected he was who he is - but he was under strict instructions not to let on.

"He is now in a very fragile mental state. After blowing his cover on the outside he is doing the same again behind bars. In the last couple of days he has openly revealed to people inside 'I am Jon Venables'.

"He is on the edge and there are major concerns that he can never return to a secret life. He has also said he does not want another new identity.

"Venables is being monitored by doctors who are assessing his mental health. One option that cannot be ruled out is that he could be sectioned.

"He is denying doing anything wrong and saying 'I am who I am' and is desperate for people to accept him."

His case has been passed to the Parole Board who will decide if and when he should be released.

Three of the most experienced members of the board - a judge, a psychologist, and a lay member - have been picked to oversee his case.

James' dad Ralph and his ex-wife Denise have the right to address the parole panel but the prison authorities are said to be determined they never get to meet Venables face to face.

The parents believe Venables and his pal Robert Thompson should not have been freed so soon after they tortured and killed their two-year-old son when they were 10 in 1993.

They were released with new identities in 2001 on the orders of the European court.
Risk

Meanwhile police are continuing to probe the circumstances around the images on Venables' computer.

A large number of people found guilty of their first possession of child porn offence often do not receive a prison sentence.

Our source said: "The police investigation is ongoing, but it is still extremely unlikely he will ever be charged, especially if there is a risk it would not lead to a conviction and jail term."

If the Parole Board decided he could be freed the Home Office would have to create a second new identity for him at an estimated cost of up to £250,000.

Our source added: "That is likely to end up being a waste of money if he refuses to give up his established life."

_________________
Put a Bible in the wind and the rain and it will perish; my Bible IS the wind and the rain

avatar
EarthsAngel
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1685
Join date : 2010-01-25
Location : District 9

Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  El Guapo on Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:18 am

This makes my blood boil. Why are we spending hundreds of thousands of pounds to protect this bastard's identity when he is only too willing to give it away?

We should STOP protecting him...make his face public...and allow the vigilantes to tear him to pieces.

_________________
If Carlsberg made men...

avatar
El Guapo
Admin
Admin

Posts : 2176
Join date : 2010-01-25
Age : 40
Location : Seated in front of PC

Back to top Go down

Re: Venables!!!!

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum